Have you ever seeen aything like this???

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franky85
 
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Have you ever seeen aything like this???

Postby franky85 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:24 pm

Found these sheds April 2010.
 
Got pictures of the deer all year so far from summer to winter.  Never could see him from the stand.
 
I can't find anyone who has ever seen antlers grow like this.  Let me know if you have


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bowman12
 
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RE: Have you ever seeen aything like this???

Postby bowman12 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:32 pm

All I can say is WOW! I've never seen any like it or have read or seen a picture of anything like it. It's really cool you found his sheds(shed). He'd definitely be on my hit list. What state are you from, and I wonder if he's spreading those genetics around at all. I'd guess it's a hereditary trait. Sure hope you get him or at least find his shed again.

franky85
 
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RE: Have you ever seeen aything like this???

Postby franky85 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:35 pm

I'm from Illinois and he is still around right now as far as I know.  Last picture I have though is from 12-4-2010 or somewhere right around there.
In the last two pictures he and another little buck were chasing a doe, but I didn't attach all those pictures.  I would say he is deffinetly spreading his genetics.  Any guesses on age?  I think he is 5 1/2 minimum.

NC Deer Hunter
 
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RE: Have you ever seeen aything like this???

Postby NC Deer Hunter » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:04 pm

I would say the same Franky, at least 5 1/2. He looks like an old timer.

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Deebz
 
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RE: Have you ever seeen aything like this???

Postby Deebz » Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:38 pm

Very interesting... could this have been caused by an injury to the skull plate?  Hopefully you can harvest this guy and get a good look at his skull.  I really like the weird or off-beat characteristics that show up

CoG
 
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RE: Have you ever seeen aything like this???

Postby CoG » Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:44 pm

IMO, this does not look very "genetic".  I get tired anyway of hearing "spreading genes".  Anyway, my guess is that he grew odd and large pedicles that happened to touch each other.  Just a slight abnormality in this individual deer that created joined pedicles.  Something I've never seen for sure but just another example of the random development of deer antlers.
-Benny

franky85
 
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RE: Have you ever seeen aything like this???

Postby franky85 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:22 am

Deebz:  I have heard that injuries to the pedicles can cause some pretty peculiar antler growth, so that could have something to do with this.  It's hard to say though.
 
 
CoG:  From the research I've seen and heard of, antler characteristics are more hereditary to the doe than the buck.  Meaning there is a better chance of a doe having buck fawns two years in a row and those two bucks ending up sharing antler characteristics then either of those bucks sharing the antler characteristics of their father.
 
I never meant that he was spreading his antlers to his offspring, I just answered bowman12's question that he is still around and from some of the pictures I have of him, he is breeding does.  He's a big healthy old deer and I will be happy to have more of his offspring around.
 
Either way, genetics are genetics whether you get tired of hearing people say "spreading genes" or not.

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Deebz
 
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RE: Have you ever seeen aything like this???

Postby Deebz » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:41 am

I'm not an expert on deer genetics, but like franky says, genetics are genetics.  If an organism creates an offspring through sexual reproduction, exactly 50% of the offsprings genes come from each parent.  And if this is "Just a slight abnormality in this individual deer that created joined pedicles", then that specific organism MUST have genes that coded for it's antlers to grow in this fashion.  Therefore, every single sperm cell created by this animal has at least a 50% chance of having the same genetic profile.  Whether or not the same traits are exhibited by the offspring involves a HUGE amount of other factors (it took me a semester long genetics course to learn that stuff, so i won't bore you guys with details here). 
 
So yeah, Does and Bucks alike should both contribute to antler growth in male offspring.  This is the basis for so much differentiation in ALL life.  All it takes is for a very small amount of the genetic code to differ from the "norm" to cause really radical changes in the phenotype (what an organism actually looks like)...  I mean, when we analyze the entire genome of humans and chimpanzees, we find that 97% of all the genes are exactly the same.  It's that 3% of difference that results in so many obviously different characteristics

CoG
 
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RE: Have you ever seeen aything like this???

Postby CoG » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:25 am

Yea I think you guys get my point.  The fact is genes come from mom and dad.  But visible traits aren't always what's passed and all traits are not always hereditary.  It seems that everything anyone sees nowadays is treated as "hereditary" and someone does or doesn't want to "see the genes spread".  The fact is the most odd racked buck can pass perfectly typical genes and vise versa.  What a deer's traits show isn't always what he passes, but sometimes it is. 

This buck has some genetic code that caused his pedicles to grow like that, but there's little guarantee he could even pass it on.  I don't know if something like could be simple recessive or dominant, but even if it did pass on and wasn't dominant it'd have to join with some similar gene passed by the doe.  More or less a crazy game of roulette you as a hunter might as well forget about trying to control.  It's much more likely his passed genes will result in normal pedicled offspring.

Basically, an "inferior" looking deer isn't always passing "inferior" genes.  He may pass a hidden genetic trait to grow the next world record typical.  Odds are also that the inferior looking deer came due to genes from a perfectly normal looking papa.

If you wanted to determine if this is hereditary and produce it you'd have to line breed it for a few generations.  That's what we do in captivity, but in the wild you might as well forget about thinking you have any control.  You may kill him to "remove his genes" but it might be his normal looking brother that's going to pass the gene on.  Should killed him instead, but you didn't know.  Haha.  Sorry, just my little rant on killing and growing particular traits in wild deer.  It's one of my irritable areas.
-Benny

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3tail
 
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RE: Have you ever seeen aything like this???

Postby 3tail » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:19 pm

no i never have seen anything like it but its still a nice buck .

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