Legal vs Ethical

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hunter480
 
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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby hunter480 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:52 pm

Look, nugent did NOT get ticketed for shooting a deer with a bait pile on a neighboring farm.........he filmed a California hunt and shot an illegal deer over a bait pile....baiting is illegal in California.......
Greg Russell

The Second Amendment, America`s Original Homeland Security

hunter480
 
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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby hunter480 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:55 pm

And more to the point, I still really like the Hampton article that I started the thread about.
 
Clearly, legal and ethical don`t always mean the same thing, and I`ve stated that....but understand, it works both ways. Just because something is legal, doesn`t mean it`s necessarily ethical.
Greg Russell

The Second Amendment, America`s Original Homeland Security

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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby Highlander Archery » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:03 pm

ORIGINAL: hunter480

Look, nugent did NOT get ticketed for shooting a deer with a bait pile on a neighboring farm.........he filmed a California hunt and shot an illegal deer over a bait pile....baiting is illegal in California.......


Oh, you were there? or are you just regurgitating what the Media and an Agency with a new TV show are telling you?

hunter480
 
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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby hunter480 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:05 pm

LOL, you`re pretty funny.....here is the news report........




[font="times new roman"]Rocker, reality TV star and avid hunter [/font][font="times new roman"]Ted Nugent[/font][font="times new roman"] has long been a supporter of hunters' rights and an advocate of "fair chase" — the ethical and lawful pursuit of free-ranging wild animals. But the grizzled rocker shot himself in the foot this past February, when an episode of his Outdoor Channel TV show Spirit of the Wild showed him killing a too-young deer in Northern California, and using illegal bait to lure the animal to its doom.
      According to the Sacramento Bee, two game wardens watched the episode when it initially aired, and one of them "just about fell out of his chair" when he saw what transpired, said California Fish and Game spokesman Patrick Foy. On the show, Nugent killed a deer with bow and arrow, which is perfectly legal. But the wardens could see it was a "spike" buck, meaning its antlers had not yet "forked," Foy said. It is illegal in California to kill such a young deer.
      Even worse, the wardens noticed that, before Nugent killed it, the deer was eating something that had been spread on the ground. A subsequent investigation revealed that Nugent had used  a commercial bait product with the lovely name of "C'mere Deer" — and it's illegal to bait wildlife in California.
      Yuba County prosecutors eventually filed 11 charges against "The Nuge," including shooting an underage buck, but it was announced yesterday that the rocker had cut a plea deal with the Yuba City District Attorney's office to reduce the number of charges to two misdemeanors: Baiting a deer and hunting with an improperly signed hunting tag. Nugent was fined  $1,750 over the incident, but his reputation as a hunting activist may have been hit much harder than his wallet. 
     "I'm very disappointed in him," said Jim Lidberg, a board member of the California Deer Association, a hunting and conservation group. "He's been a very strong advocate for hunters' rights and really looked up to by a lot of people."
      Nugent is scheduled to play several shows in Southern California this week.
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Greg Russell

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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby Highlander Archery » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:24 pm

ORIGINAL: hunter480

LOL, you`re pretty funny.....here is the news report........




[font="times new roman"][size="3"]Rocker, reality TV star and avid hunter [/size][/font][font="times new roman"][color="#0000ff"][size="3"]Ted Nugent[/size][/color][/font][font="times new roman"][size="3"] has long been a supporter of hunters' rights and an advocate of "fair chase" — the ethical and lawful pursuit of free-ranging wild animals. But the grizzled rocker shot himself in the foot this past February, when an episode of his Outdoor Channel TV show Spirit of the Wild showed him killing a too-young deer in Northern California, and using illegal bait to lure the animal to its doom.
     According to the Sacramento Bee, two game wardens watched the episode when it initially aired, and one of them "just about fell out of his chair" when he saw what transpired, said California Fish and Game spokesman Patrick Foy. On the show, Nugent killed a deer with bow and arrow, which is perfectly legal. But the wardens could see it was a "spike" buck, meaning its antlers had not yet "forked," Foy said. It is illegal in California to kill such a young deer.
     Even worse, the wardens noticed that, before Nugent killed it, the deer was eating something that had been spread on the ground. A subsequent investigation revealed that Nugent had used  a commercial bait product with the lovely name of "C'mere Deer" — and it's illegal to bait wildlife in California.
      Yuba County prosecutors eventually filed 11 charges against "The Nuge," including shooting an underage buck, but it was announced yesterday that the rocker had cut a plea deal with the Yuba City District Attorney's office to reduce the number of charges to two misdemeanors: Baiting a deer and hunting with an improperly signed hunting tag. Nugent was fined  $1,750 over the incident, but his reputation as a hunting activist may have been hit much harder than his wallet. 
    "I'm very disappointed in him," said Jim Lidberg, a board member of the California Deer Association, a hunting and conservation group. "He's been a very strong advocate for hunters' rights and really looked up to by a lot of people."
     Nugent is scheduled to play several shows in Southern California this week.[/size][/font]



Oh... So you are just regurgitating what the media wrote. You in fact have no "findings of fact" nor have you seen any relevant court documents regarding this case? California, a state where HSUS, PETA, Sierra Club, and a host of other eco-extremist and Animal Rights organizations have a proven history of driving the laws behind game management and your rights as a sportsman, and their media somehow have unimpeachable credibility? Ted owned up to his mistake, took responsibility, and made no effort to hide it from anyone. Right or wrong, time will tell.

It is my opinion that your dislike of Nugent is more important to you than any deep rooted ethics or moral settings you have. Love him or hate him, it is your right and choice, but be honest about where you are coming from.

hunter480
 
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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby hunter480 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:28 pm

I have been, and AM honest about where my feelings come from....I have a strong dislike for nugent...AND, now, he`s a proven poacher, so I dislike him even more.......
 
Sorry you seem so upset over the ordeal......but the news report is accurate. Must be a great world you live in, where you only accept the facts you approve of.......
Greg Russell

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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby Highlander Archery » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:50 pm

ORIGINAL: hunter480

I have been, and AM honest about where my feelings come from....I have a strong dislike for nugent...AND, now, he`s a proven poacher, so I dislike him even more.......

Sorry you seem so upset over the ordeal......but the news report is accurate. Must be a great world you live in, where you only accept the facts you approve of.......


Upset, I have refrained from addressing Nugent in anyway till now. It was you who brought the thread back to Nugent after several pages where he wasn't even mentioned. I believe it is you who is upset that this thread drifted from a bash Nugent thread to a more substantive discussion on "Ethics" and "Legality" and the reasoning why both are symbiotic. 

hunter480
 
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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby hunter480 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:59 pm

Yup, I brought it back around to ol` uncle ted, since some seemed to believe he was innocent, and the arrest was just a simple misunderstanding, and that he wasn`t even using bait......he`s guilty, and people need to understand that. Moreover, anyone, or any magazine that insists on using nugent, is making an unspoken acceptance of his behavior, good AND bad, and therein lies my complaint with Deer and Deer Hunting.
 
Several posts back, I did indeed attempt to steer the conversation back to the article I originally started the thread about.....but isn`t it amazing how ethics, or lack thereof, seemed to drive the conservation back to nugent.
 
This is the last I`ll say on this thread.
Greg Russell

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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby Highlander Archery » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:35 pm

ORIGINAL: hunter480

Yup, I brought it back around to ol` uncle ted, since some seemed to believe he was innocent, and the arrest was just a simple misunderstanding, and that he wasn`t even using bait......he`s guilty, and people need to understand that. Moreover, anyone, or any magazine that insists on using nugent, is making an unspoken acceptance of his behavior, good AND bad, and therein lies my complaint with Deer and Deer Hunting.

Several posts back, I did indeed attempt to steer the conversation back to the article I originally started the thread about.....but isn`t it amazing how ethics, or lack thereof, seemed to drive the conservation back to nugent.

This is the last I`ll say on this thread.


You really are delusional. 3 pages later and YOU steer it back to Nugent despite the fact that several others placed substantive questions for debate regarding the original topic. Again, all you know about the Nugent case is what the article tells you, you were not there, you have no knowledge of anything other than what the paper told you.

Guess What...this Letter to the Editor was printed recently

 There's good news from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Within the last few days, newspapers across the country have reported that 33 states have seen a decline in hunting license sales over the last decade. Hunting is a dying sport in the U.S., with Wisconsin leading the way.

Dispute the facts of this article...You cannot. Numbers are way down and "Ethics" is not even a blip on the radar of the reasons it is down.

MSG1954
 
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RE: Legal vs Ethical

Postby MSG1954 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:52 pm

Gulfcapt,
As I was sitting in my ground blind the other day late in the Indiana deer-hunting season without any tag filled I thought about the consequences of shooting a doe.

I figured she would be pregnant and I thought deeply about it.

But, I looked at it like this. Let's say I killed her when she wasn't pregnant earlier in the season. Then with her life cycle over she couldn't reproduce...ever.

So, even if you kill a doe early in the season (i.e. - a non-pregnant one) are you not still killing more than one deer if your line of reasoning is projected into the future?

E.G.-If "that" doe lived to be six, and you shot her early in the season when she's two didn’t you just tkae out five to ten offspring plus her?

In several counties in Indiana you can take up to eight antlerless deer. Why? Because there are too many car-deer collisions, crop damage, and a host of deer caused trouble. This is why/how limits are set.

Hunters are in many respects an instrument of herd regulation (along with predators, and disease).

In a certain context I think we are ethical, because we think about this type of paradox as it tugs against our conscious.

Mike

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