"reduced recoil" ammo claims

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NCdeerguy
 
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"reduced recoil" ammo claims

Postby NCdeerguy » Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:08 pm

Some ammo manufacturers, I know remington for sure, market rifle cartridges (maybe shotshells too) that claim "reduced recoil." how is this possible without reducing the powder measurement, or have they just slipped through loopholes in false advertising with their marketing? What do you know or what are your thoughts on this?

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Rutnut
 
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RE: "reduced recoil" ammo claims

Postby Rutnut » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:28 pm

I'm no expert, so maybe I shouldn't comment....but I will. From what I always heard, it has something to do with stretching out the detonation, Or expanding the time of explosion so to speak. That duration is nothing you can notice, but I guess the process makes it smoother. Than again, maybe I don't know what I’m talking about, but that's my guess.

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gunther89
 
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RE: "reduced recoil" ammo claims

Postby gunther89 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:53 pm

I tried a box of reduced recoil from Remington in 30-06, and I could tell slightly a difference.  I know they only came in 125 gran and now I shoot 150 gran which doesn't have reduced recoil.  
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RE: "reduced recoil" ammo claims

Postby GTOHunter » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:29 pm

Well the "Managed Recoil" shells have to be used in a Bolt-action Rifle because it states that there may not be enough force to eject a shell from a semi-automatic Rifle/Gun.I bought a box of the shells to use in the used Remington 30-06 Bolt-action Rifle I bought recently....I was sighting in several Rifles at our local MDC Shooting Range.The 1st Rifle was a new Savage "Edge' bolt-action in a .243 caliber,the second was my new Savage 7mm-08 bolt-action,3rd was my Browning A-bolt Hunter .243 Bolt-action Rifle and finally 4th the older Remington 30-06 bolt-action.After sighting in the first 3 Rifles I tried the managed Recoil shells in the 30-06 and I must say I was very impressed,the felt-recoil was like the recoil of the 2 other .243 Rifles,possibly even less because I was thinking the 30-06 is really going to kick me pretty good...I was shocked and amazed at how light the felt recoil was!I sighted the 30-06 with the 125 grain bullets at 50 yards,then after hitting dead center I moved to the 100 yards target and put 3 shells inside a small circle no bigger than the width of a 8 oz drinking glass circumference.It made a believer out of me....my only regrett was I tried to buy the Managed Recoil shells for my new Savage 7mm-08 Rifle and they were on back-order for over 2 months before deer season and I had to get my Rifles checked and sighted-in before then.
 
 
Now each Rifle I sighted in I used my Caldwell Lead Sled for the initial sighting in and shooting...then after I felt the Rifle was shooting where I wanted them to be hitting I shot several shots Free-handed on a padded rest including the 30-06 with the managed recoil shells.I thought they used less powder in the shells to keep the Guns from having so much recoil in them...no different than hand-loading any other shells in my opinion?Either way if You have a Rifle out there that has a lot of recoil and You or a Younger Hunter/Youth needs to shot a Rifle with less recoil I highly reccomend them rather than going out and buying a newer Youth Rifle and You can always shoot the regular type shells/ammo as they grow older and bigger...or leave them alone and continue to shot the shells with the "Managed recoil" shells.    

krawiech
 
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RE: "reduced recoil" ammo claims

Postby krawiech » Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:19 am

obviously by the info here they reduced the weight of the bullet therefore they probably reduced the powder charge maybe if you went on their website you could look at the ballistics and compare them to a regular weight bullet and load the specs may also tell the weight of the powder charge or you might look into a reloading chart to obtain the info your looking for hank k

Dan Salmon
 
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RE: "reduced recoil" ammo claims

Postby Dan Salmon » Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:46 am

I would guess that it's a combination of a lighter weight bullet and faster burning powder.  Lots of hand load recipes call for smaller amounts of what are typically shotgun/pistol powders for plinking/reduced recoil loads.

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RE: "reduced recoil" ammo claims

Postby GTOHunter » Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:33 pm

Well the 30-06 shells are a lighter weight bullet...125 grains now and they stated that the bullet will only drop about an inch at 100 yards if memory serves me correctly?The managed recoil shells for the 7mm-08 are 140 grains and 140 grains in the regular 7mm-08 shells also,so they must be using less powder or a different kind as mentioned?It made a firm believer out of me and I plan on getting the managed recoil shells for my 7mm-08 after I use up the last box of regular shells.

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shaman
 
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RE: "reduced recoil" ammo claims

Postby shaman » Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:47 am

ORIGINAL: NCdeerguy

Some ammo manufacturers, I know remington for sure, market rifle cartridges (maybe shotshells too) that claim "reduced recoil." how is this possible without reducing the powder measurement, or have they just slipped through loopholes in false advertising with their marketing? What do you know or what are your thoughts on this?



Oh, it's not false advertising.  Here's how they do it:

1)  There is a tremendous difference in recoil if you use lighter bullets.  If you take a 180 grain 30-06 load and substitute a 130 grain bullet, the recoil goes way down.
2)  There is a tremendous difference in the burning rate of powders.  Slower burning powder can build up more pressure.  If you substitute a moderate powder (something like H4895) into  a  load, the recoil goes down.
3)  There is a tremendous difference in recoil if you knock just a hair off the velocity.  Normal factory loads are trying to opitmize for velocity.  If you knock off just a little velocity-- reduce the load only 2-5% you get a nearly the same velocity with much less recoil.

I do a lot of reloading and this is primarily why.  I can take a 30-06 load, knock 5% off the MAX  powder recommendation, use H4895, and come up with a load that still kills deer at 200 yards, but has a much nicer recoil.  Furthermore, knocking a bit off the velocity also improves accuracy.

With my 35 Whelen, I use a 200 grain bullet, H4895 and load it down to 358 WIN velocities and it shoot not a whole lot different than a 30-06.

My favorite deer rifle is a Savage 99 in 308 WIN.  I specifically bought it, because I wanted to take the 308 WIN cartridge and download it a bit so it would work like a hot 300 Savage.  The result is a 165 grain bullet travelling at 2600 fps.  It has the range of the 300 Savage-- maybe a tad more.  It works well out of a treestand, but because it's downloaded, it never develops the pressures  of a 308 WIN and therefore the kick is negligible.


My two warnings on Reduced Recoil loads are these:

1)  Don't buy a rifle specifically to shoot reduced recoil loads. There's only a few choices. You can get yourself into trouble if you later find that special load doesn't work well in your rifle and now you own a recoil monster. If you want a 300 WIN MAG that has the recoil of a 30-06, buy the 30-06.  If you can't handle a 30-06, buy the 7mm-08. 

2)  Don't expect the same results with reduced recoil loads as full-house production loads.  I can cook you up a 30-06 load that has the recoil of a 30-30 , but it's going to perform like a 30-30.
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riverrat
 
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RE: "reduced recoil" ammo claims

Postby riverrat » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:30 am

I’m disabled with neck problems and started shooting LR in 2007, 30-06 170 gr. and 12 g. shotgun (slug). I had started looking for another gun with less recoil when I found the LR shells. They have been a blessing for me and great to start a kid or lady out shooting. I started my twin nephews out shooting my 30-06 and 12 g. shotgun and they did great, I believe it had a lot to do with the LR. I can’t tell how they work but I can tell you they are designed different, Remington won’t work in an auto but Federal will. I bought a box of Remington and only after they wouldn’t work did I see in small print that they won’t work in an auto. The claims of 50% recoil are correct, feels like even less. If sighted in at 100 yards they are -10” at 200 yards. That is no problem for me being in Louisiana most deer I harvest are within 100 yards. I harvested a doe Friday evening at about 70 yards and she dropped like a rock. So if you have neck problems, introducing a kid to shooting or just want less recoil I would highly recommend getting the LR.

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Re:

Postby GTOHunter » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:40 am

Thanks for the in-depth Info Shaman and added information Riverrat,its great to see that the Managed Recoil shells can help others in being a better and more accurate Shooter/Hunter!
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