What Can We Do?

[atlashbs]

Several people have responded to my comment with ad hominum attacks yet I have not read any rebuttals of my points except for  woodswalker who brought up rape and murder.

Woods Walker - You don't call something "moral" just because a state passed a law.  Jim Crow laws were real, and they were EVIL.  But for many years they were ENFORCED.
Jim Crow laws were wrong and immoral.  Slavery was LEGAL but it was wrong and immoral.  Bankers that stole money in the 80's were breaking the law (and hundreds went to jail) and they were wrong.  Bankers stole money in the last decade and it was LEGAL (none have even been arrested).  Burnie madoff ran a ponzi scheme and it was illegal, Social security does the same thing and it is legal (and will hurt millions when it collapses).  Obamacare is ILLEGAL and it is being ENFORCED.  The list goes on and on.

Right and wrong are not the same thing as Legal and illegal.  This country was FOUNDED on the principle that when the law no longer serves the people that law should be CAST OFF.
The sport of hunting is in sorry shape for one reason.  Unjust laws have not be opposed and overturned, they have been accepted by a soft public unwilling to stand up for what they believe in.

Take a good look around, there is an army of lawyers and environmentalists ready to END your way of life.  Little by little, regulation by regulation they are destroying your way of life, and you just accept it.  With each little law they chisels away at your rights.  And now we have somebody actaully wanting to HELP these guys do it (see original post about how to "help" the government enforcers).
 

[Woods Walker]

OK.....I'll play....

First question then. WHO determines then what is "right and wrong"? You? Me? The current majority?

I see your point about the Constitution, and do agree that when we deviate from that the wheels start to come off. But there's an awful lot of "grey area" in between.

I know there are two extremes within the world of hunting today....those who believe that the hunting of wildlife should be based on one thing and one thing only; the number of deer killed to maintain the resource within balance with the habitat. How, when, and where have no relevance whatsoever. There are those who look at hunting in the context of "sport" hunting, with the limitations that comes with it.

Most of us fall somewhere between the two, and that's where the trouble starts.

Hunting for many of us is based on TRADITION. That will differ among us based on where we were raised. What's acceptable and traditional in one area will differ from another. Hound hunting for deer is one example.

But you have to consider another factor...the non-hunting public. Like it or not, when it comes to hunting's fate being determined at the ballot box (and that IS where it will be determined), then it WILL be that sector of the voting public who determines it, because they are the vast majority.

We have no Constitutional right to hunt. Yeah, yeah...I know...some states have passed right to hunt laws, but all they do is to recognize that hunting is a traditional and accepted use of game management policy. The final say is STILL based on what that state's game and fish department have to say about it. When we are no longer acceptable to that sector, then we are finished.

So somewhere bewteen total anarchy and hunting with a pea-shooter while wearing a bllindfold and standing on one leg is where we need to be.

[Bob Olsen]

People are people, arrogant,friendly,etc.,etc. If the "Man" approaches you and you don't like his demeanor/attitude,try to disarm him(bad choice of words, I know) with a smile and a warm hello. They have a stressful job. They deal with people who have weapon's and just doing their job often puts people in the corner, just like police officers. Ever see how people react to a simple traffic ticket? These situation's stay in their mind's. If you see the "Man" in the store extend a warm hello, he'll remember that too. If he has an attitude in the woods,giving him attitude back will not help. [:D]

[jonny5buck]

@BOB- the truth of the matter is that besides the 1-800-poacher number and people turning in suspected poachers & poaching there isn't much else we can do.CPO'S are spread thin-i believe one to a county...that's alot of ground to cover.One thing i believe we can do is to pass on the belief to the next generation that the game laws aren't that hard to follow,and it's not worth losing your bow ,or respect from the majority of us who abide by those laws.

Giving money won't buy another game warden per county to help enforce laws.The other sad truth is that money from us taxed on hunting supplies ,licenses,etc. goes into a ''General fund'' it doesn't always find it's way back to resources and parks,etc.-it could go to roadwork or other projects statewide.

The general public is a huge help to combat poaching in illinois ,but it continues.... some counties have higher repeat areas than others.I get ''Illinois outdoor news'' paper and it is full everytime with poachers and violators from each county in illinois.

I applaud you-Bob for wanting to do more .

[Bob Olsen]

I do believe they need our help!!! If someone is poaching on your farm where you work so hard to accomplish Q.D.M. or just your own little bit of 'Paradise" who you call "Ghostbuster's"? C'mon Man. That's a whole world of hurt (can of worm's)just waint to happen. If,hypothetically speaking, we all stick together and do away with the "Man", then, do we try to get rid of the State Police,local law enforcement?
 I had a hard time with the C.P.O. 13 or so years ago. Bad deal for me.I made an honest mistake and held a grudge for awhile. Well it's kind of like pissin' down your leg,it only bothers you!!! I now know Steve to be a very good person, who was only doin' his job. I should have read the "RULES".
 Even with rules and law's in place they still have a tough job.
 
How would you like to be walking out of the woods at dusk and have some young kid's spot-light a trophy and lob in a bullet from 300 yard's and pop you in the head. I know it can happen now,but if there were no "silly rules" it would be worse. Now, let's go to the State level,speeding,bank robbery,etc.,etc.
 What is "ad hominum"?

[Bob Olsen]

Thanks for the pat on the back!!! This is exactly what I'm talking about. Just being positive goes a long way. It touched my spirit. While my "Eye's are bigger than my stomach",my intention's are good. We all need to evolve, a little bit every day.
 Thank you Jonny5 for putting my thought's in their proper perspective.

[MuzzleHeadWayne]

I agree that money or contributions to Conservation Police Officers (C.P.O.'s) really wont put another officer on the job. We as hunters should at least try to police ourselves. I am a firm believer that some rules are necessary or we will have chaos, plain and simple. When you see someone shooting a deer out of season or taking more than the legal limit report it. Here in the state of Virginia that number is 1-800-237-5712 or wildcrime@dgif.virginia.gov. If you can't get a response from them you are directed to call the local Sheriff. These poachers are giving “Hunters a bad image; one as reckless law breakers. And we should do everything in our powers to correct that situation. C.P.O.’s do have a stressful job and their lives are in danger every time they put on their uniform. Professional poachers have no problem with doing whatever is necessary to save their own hides (pun intended). I have both the poachers hot line and the county (and neighboring county) Sheriff’s numbers programmed into my cell phone. I also think that if you give respect you will receive it back. Sure there are those C.P.O.’s that believe that everyone is a violator that has not been caught yet. But there are also many more that do their jobs professionally. Put yourself in their shoes and think about what you might face daily as a Conservation Police Officer.

[krawiech]

i personally wont contribute to a conservation officer fund ive had both good and bad expierences with them one of my friends is a c/o i taught hunter education for 7 years but ill never forget the c/o who frisked one of the hunters i was with he was an immature 16 yearold it made him give up duck hunting the same c/o federal officer i would like to add checked by license duck stamps for 6 consective days at the same location at the time i was taking out students from my hunter education classes who only had 1 parent i would supply gun ammo that c/o turned me off so bad i started to hunt ducks lesss i no longer hunt ducks at all i am now a handicapped hunter restricted to a wheelchair but i still deer hunt and i sit on the edge of a field to try and shoot pheasants my c/o friend has retired so i can no longer call him a c/o one other incident i had was with a c/o in our state your license must be displayed on your back but accessory items like duck stamps pheasant and quail stamps can be in your wallet this c/o wanted to write a summons for not displaying a stamp on my back afterr one half of an hour looking in hismanual he finally read in my digest issued by the state that the stamps must be in your possession not necessarily displayed after that time he just said he was finished and i could leave no apology or confirmation he was wrong damn rightb i had an attitude i still do to this day ive been hunting for over 50 years and have never been cited for fish or game violations the c/o do their jobs that what they get paid for they took the job knowing the risks involved and the low pay thats their problem look at things today and see how many hunters we have lost do to unemployment bad economy bad expierences hank k

[ganthon]

Since some people seem to have issues with donating $$$ to Game Wardens for salaries, and general expenses,how about donating something that impacts poaching directly? Get your buddies, local land owners or QDMA chapter or whoever to donate to the purchase of a RoboDeer. That way you know your $$$ are going to be used for trapping the lowlifes that ride around shooting deer at night from their truck windows. I just wish they'd let me watch one night or film it so we could watch them get busted.

[Bob Olsen]

This is an excellant idea. One of the best I've heard. We could also purchase an infra-red camera. Now the wheels are turning. Cameras are very inexpensive now. Your local Archery shop would probably be a good place to start!!!