New to the sport and i got a question????

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Central-PA_hunting
 
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New to the sport and i got a question????

Postby Central-PA_hunting » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:36 pm

I hope someone can help me out with this quick question. Im new to archery and I was wondering when your shooting at a deer from a tree stand you cant aim directly on the spot you want to shoot right? You have to aim a little high since your up high? Im just confused never done this before so if someone could help me that would be great!

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4khorn
 
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Re: New to the sport and i got a question????

Postby 4khorn » Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:27 pm

First off, welcome to the forums and to the greatest sport in the world! In my experience, the only time you should ever aim high is when you know the deer is farther than the distance your pin is set at. Even then, out to 25 yards the arrow drop will be pretty minimal. The important thing is that because you are shooting down at an angle, that you bend at the waist. Not bending correctly is a common mistake many hunters make. Also, there are situations when you should actually be aiming a bit low. For example, if you have a shot at close range, under 15 yards or so. In this case you will want to aim a bit low and really bend at the waist. Another time would be when a deer is acting a bit on edge. Like they know that something isn't quite right. In this case it is a good idea to aim a few inches low because they will often duck at the sound of the shot. If they duck, you will get lung and if they don't you have a good chance at getting the heart. One last bit of advice I would have for a new hunter would be to be selective on your shots. Be patient and wait for the deer to turn broadside, and aim to take out the lungs. If you take your time and pick out a spot, you have a lot of room for error. Do not shoot at the whole deer. Literally try your best to pick out a spot, even an individual hair, and then let her rip. It is much easier said and done, it will come with experience. You will experience a lot of ups and downs in this sport. The important thing is to have fun and learn from all of those experiences. I've been deer hunting for 6 years and I could write an encyclopedia on what can go wrong. Its just part of it. Hope these tips are helpful! Don't hesitate to ask any question you have. There are a ton of very knowledgeable folks on here just waiting to lend a hand.
My pursuit of a buck of a lifetime is much like the Chicago Cubs pursuit of a World Series...the season ends with a "wait til next year"

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Woods Walker
 
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Re: New to the sport and i got a question????

Postby Woods Walker » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:37 pm

If your sights are set from the ground, then when you are in an elevated position there will be LESS drop on the arrow (a flatter trajectory) due to gravity. This will cause your arrow to shoot HIGH. So unless you set your sights from an elevated position, then yes, you may want to hold a bit high. This will vary according to how far away the shot it, and how high up you are.

Some also prefer to aim a bit low, because if a deer "jumps string", then they tend to duck down a bit at the sound of the shot. and then if you are holding a little low then you will still make a good hit. This will also vary with the distance of the shot, and more importantly at what state of alertness the deer is when you release the arrow.

But what's FAR more important is what 4khorn said about BENDING AT THE WAIST when you shoot from elevation. Not doing that one things sets into motion a whole chain reaction of shooting form errors, NONE of which are good.
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Central-PA_hunting
 
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Re: New to the sport and i got a question????

Postby Central-PA_hunting » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:57 am

Thank you very much guys for the replies this helped me understand alot I would have never even guessed about some of the things you guys told me. Im so ready for the season to come! AGain thank you for the advice it is greatly appriciated!

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pgchambers
 
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Re: New to the sport and i got a question????

Postby pgchambers » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:48 am

"This will cause your arrow to shoot HIGH. So unless you set your sights from an elevated position, then yes, you may want to hold a bit high."

Not trying to start something, but If your arrow is already going to hit high, you DO NOT want to hold high as it will hit even higher. You want to hold a little low, because the arrow is going to hit higher than you expect. Trust me, you want to aim a touch lower than normal on both uphill and downhill(treestands) shots. Below is an article on this, in case you don't trust me.

http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/April04.htm

A direct quote from this article - "Just remember to always aim lower, because any slant range shot, either downhill or uphill, will be higher than if it were a horizontal shot."

However, if you have a range finder that has angle compensation, then you trust the range finder and aim dead nuts for what the range finder says.
Last edited by pgchambers on Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mhouck06
 
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Re: New to the sport and i got a question????

Postby mhouck06 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:13 am

Gravity shouldnt change the trajectory of your arrow.... gravity causes everything to fall at the same rate of velocity. 9.8 m/s^2.. the mass of the object is what makes something fall faster than something else. so pretty much whether you shoot from 20ft or ground, your arrow will start to fall at the same time on each shot.


Central PA... best thing to do is set your target up and climb up a tree. Like these guys said.. bending at the waste is huge. Get up in a tree and shoot at different yardages. Get used to bending, and create situations for yourself.

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pgchambers
 
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Re: New to the sport and i got a question????

Postby pgchambers » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:19 am

mhouck06 wrote:Gravity shouldnt change the trajectory of your arrow.... gravity causes everything to fall at the same rate of velocity. 9.8 m/s^2.. the mass of the object is what makes something fall faster than something else. so pretty much whether you shoot from 20ft or ground, your arrow will start to fall at the same time on each shot.


Central PA... best thing to do is set your target up and climb up a tree. Like these guys said.. bending at the waste is huge. Get up in a tree and shoot at different yardages. Get used to bending, and create situations for yourself.


It is not the effect of gravity that changes, it is the actual distance vs. the distance that gravity affects that is slightly different. In other words, if you are in a tree, you may be 45 yards from a deer based on your elevation, but the base of the tree is only 40 yards from the deer. Gravity pulls the arrow down over the 40 yard distance, not the 45 yard distance, thus the arrow will hit slightly high if you aim for 45 yards. It is proven science, I have actually done the tests in physics courses. Does the effect matter much at 20 yards? Probably not, but the longer the distance, the more the effect, so it is something to be aware of. Again, experts all agree, you should aim a bit low on uphill and downhill shots. Figure two and the text following it, in the link I posted above, explains the math/physics of it. It is the same physics they use to create angle compensating range finders. If you have one, check a distance with the angle compensation turned off, it will always be further than the distance with it turned on(except when on flat ground it will be equal), thus when figuring angle, the shot is always closer than you think. Another link:

http://www.getoat.com/page5.htm
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mhouck06
 
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Re: New to the sport and i got a question????

Postby mhouck06 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:27 pm

wasnt coming at you pgchambers. was agreeing with your statement to woods. "It is not the effect of gravity that changes".. i never said that. all i said was gravity is not going to change the trajectory of an arrow shot.. no matter of the yardage. if you shoot the same exact shot, whether you are on ground or up in the tree, the arrow will hit its apex of the flight at the same time and start its decent at the same time. thats all i was saying about gravity. didnt tell him to aim high or low.. just told him to practice.


my example was this..
I will use a variable for time because it depends on mass and velocity when the decent will start... but "x" is the same in each senario

shooting from the ground, lets say 40 yards. your arrow starts its decent at "x" seconds.

shooting from a tree at 40 yards.. no matter what angle you shoot... your arrow is going to start falling at "x" seconds.

thats all I was getting at..

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pgchambers
 
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Re: New to the sport and i got a question????

Postby pgchambers » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:07 pm

Ahh, I see what you were responding to now. I missed the "trajectory" :oops: part, sorry.

It's usually not that big a deal for archery shots anyway. I remember the difference between the angle distance and the "true" distance on my 23 yard shot last season was 1 yard(checked with a buddies Archer's Choice range finder out of curiosity), so I wouldn't have changed my aiming anyway. Never shot live game at 40 yards, myself, so I don't really know what the exact difference would be, but it may matter at that distance, especially if you are up 20-25 ft in the air.

I agree with the practice the shots statement - as much as humanly possible.
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Woods Walker
 
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Re: New to the sport and i got a question????

Postby Woods Walker » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:57 pm

pgchambers wrote:"This will cause your arrow to shoot HIGH. So unless you set your sights from an elevated position, then yes, you may want to hold a bit high."

Not trying to start something, but If your arrow is already going to hit high, you DO NOT want to hold high as it will hit even higher. You want to hold a little low, because the arrow is going to hit higher than you expect. Trust me, you want to aim a touch lower than normal on both uphill and downhill(treestands) shots. Below is an article on this, in case you don't trust me.

http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/April04.htm

A direct quote from this article - "Just remember to always aim lower, because any slant range shot, either downhill or uphill, will be higher than if it were a horizontal shot."

However, if you have a range finder that has angle compensation, then you trust the range finder and aim dead nuts for what the range finder says.


OOOPS!!!! My bad! I did mean that you need to hold a bit LOW, not high.
Hunt Hard,

Kill Swiftly,

Waste Nothing,

Offer No Apologies.....

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